[Fim4l] LexisNexis Advance

Jos Westerbeke jos.westerbeke at eur.nl
Mon Mar 15 20:25:16 CET 2021


Hi,

Just want to say I agree with Meshna that "This system is too complicated for users to be able to make informed decisions." About the matter at hand.

Best,
Jos

________________________________
From: FIM4L <fim4l-bounces at lists.daasi.de> on behalf of Bernd Oberknapp <bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de>
Sent: 15 March 2021 18:03
To: fim4l at lists.daasi.de <fim4l at lists.daasi.de>
Subject: Re: [Fim4l] LexisNexis Advance

Hi Meshna,

this could be addressed in the way I've described - as a result there
only would be one category with an optional
pairwise-id/eduPersonTargetedID, and the user would have the choice.

Note that enforcing the release of a pairwise-id/eduPersonTargetedID
that actually isn't required for a service is problematic - if a users
would object to releasing this attribute this would get the IdP operator
or library into trouble. Giving the user the choice solves this problem.

Best regards,
Bernd


On 15.03.21 17:35, Koren, Meshna (ELS-AMS) wrote:
 > Hi Jos,
 >
 > Please also look into the REFEDS entity categories and the recent work
 > there. If your recommendations to librarians propose some new concepts
 > or terminology (transitory access), or parallel decision making, that's
 > going to cause a lot of confusion.
 >
 > We're trying to build a system where the attribute release is automated
 > while at the same time appropriate. If an SP requests pseudonymous
 > entity category but the librarian makes a different decision, what
 > happens then? The system breaks, the user has bad experience, people
 > spend time troubleshooting and fixing.
 >
 > I understand it may be difficult for some people to take my word for it,
 > but we, too, take the user privacy seriously. And libraries should be
 > guarding user data, by all means, they just need to be informed
correctly.
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 > Meshna
 >
 > *From:* Heather Flanagan <hlf at sphericalcowconsulting.com>
 > *Sent:* Monday, March 15, 2021 16:26
 > *To:* Jiri Pavlik <jiri.pavlik at techlib.cz>; Koren, Meshna (ELS-AMS)
 > <M.Koren at elsevier.com>; Jos Westerbeke <jos.westerbeke at eur.nl>
 > *Cc:* fim4l at lists.daasi.de
 > *Subject:* Re: [Fim4l] LexisNexis Advance
 >
 > **** External email: use caution ****
 >
 > I know it does not help matters, but I need to point out that
 > eduPersonTargetedID is actually deprecated due to security concerns.
 > Instead, organizations are encouraged to use the SAML attribute,
 > subject-id
 >
(https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.oasis-open.org%2Fsecurity%2Fsaml-subject-id-attr%2Fv1.0%2Fcs01%2Fsaml-subject-id-attr-v1.0-cs01.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980839001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=vfP5JhkGS%2F9c1WwMhEYEwS2eEsGNfv%2BzgFxW84TxVYY%3D&reserved=0

 >
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.oasis-open.org%2Fsecurity%2Fsaml-subject-id-attr%2Fv1.0%2Fcs01%2Fsaml-subject-id-attr-v1.0-cs01.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980839001%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=vfP5JhkGS%2F9c1WwMhEYEwS2eEsGNfv%2BzgFxW84TxVYY%3D&reserved=0>).
 >
 > Heather Flanagan — Translator of Geek to Human
 > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsphericalcowconsulting.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=QlxS24UPnoJy259FMz0KT%2BEgwpHMB8fWKV7Dd9xJCXQ%3D&reserved=0
 >
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsphericalcowconsulting.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=QlxS24UPnoJy259FMz0KT%2BEgwpHMB8fWKV7Dd9xJCXQ%3D&reserved=0>
 >
 > On Mar 15, 2021, 8:18 AM -0700, Jos Westerbeke <jos.westerbeke at eur.nl>,
 > wrote:
 >
 >     Hi Jiri, Bernd et al,
 >
 >     thank you for this discussion. This is very meaningful for
 >     downplaying the FIM4L recommendations 4.A and 4.B to a more simple
 >     level.
 >
 >     We now have two recommendations which you have to (unfortunately)
 >     choose:
 >
 >     4.A. Transitory Access - eduPersonTargetedID as optional would be
 >     fine for this.
 >
 >     4.B. Personalized Access - eduPersonTargetedID required.
 >
 >     - And for 4.B the recommendation is to let it be for the SP side to
 >     offer a profile, voluntarily to configure by users. So that in any
 >     way IdP's do not have to release PII.
 >
 >     (https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fim4l.org%2F%3Fpage_id%3D257&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=4kH%2FirgOHDYzhkrHRoi0Ao1Hfs8aL85UtzyG4%2F1J2F0%3D&reserved=0)
 >
 >     What would we actually recommend for librarians? Wouldn't it be nice
 >     to have just one option? I think it is too difficult for librarians
 >     to choose here.
 >
 >     Reading the discussion, we can say that we cannot recommend going
 >     just for 4.B. And if librarians consider switching form IP to SAML
 >     they are very suspicious about privacy.
 >
 >     Can we recommend for both IdP's and SP's to go for 4.A?
 >
 >     What about recommending 4.A and have the option for 4.B when there
 >     is an agreement between IdP and SP about creating profiles, anchored
 >     in a contract?
 >
 >     Should we recommend a contract clausula alongside 4.B?
 >
 >     As far as I understand, I'm aware of what Meshna says: If you opt
 >     for 4.A then it is simply not possible to have a profile, which is
 >     very annoying if not impossible for our patrons.
 >
 >     Best,
 >     Jos
 >
 >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 >     *From:*FIM4L <fim4l-bounces at lists.daasi.de> on behalf of Jiri Pavlik
 >     <jiri.pavlik at techlib.cz>
 >     *Sent:* 15 March 2021 14:58
 >     *To:* Koren, Meshna (ELS-AMS) <M.Koren at elsevier.com>
 >     *Cc:* fim4l at lists.daasi.de <fim4l at lists.daasi.de>
 >     *Subject:* Re: [Fim4l] LexisNexis Advance
 >
 >     Hi Meshna,
 >
 >     thanks a lot for the comments.
 >
 >     At Elsevier SP metadata [1] I can see:
 >       eduPersonEntitlement (required)
 >       eduPersonTargetedID (optional)
 >     in DFN-AAI, IDEM or Australian Access Federation.
 >
 >     At the SP metadata in eduGAIN / UK Federation there are no requested
 >     attributes.
 >
 >     At the SP metadata in eduID.at, SWITCHaai, InCommon, RENATER I
can see:
 >
 >         eduPersonEntitlement (required)
 >         eduPersonTargetedID (required)
 >
 >     It illustrates different approaches around the world how to express
 >     optional ePTID release
 >     in SP metadata and a challenge for one appropriate SP metadata in
 >     eduGAIN serving globally.
 >     To me
 >          eduPersonEntitlement (required)
 >          eduPersonTargetedID (optional)
 >     seems as the most appropriate.
 >
 >     Cheers
 >                        Jiri
 >
 >     1.
 >
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmet.refeds.org%2Fmet%2Fentity%2Fhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fsdauth.sciencedirect.com%25252F%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LWVn7HohXktSSfcEJse8s60VQ%2FWzeoffRxpOpJPkcIM%3D&reserved=0
 >
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmet.refeds.org%2Fmet%2Fentity%2Fhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fsdauth.sciencedirect.com%25252F%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=LWVn7HohXktSSfcEJse8s60VQ%2FWzeoffRxpOpJPkcIM%3D&reserved=0>
 >
 >     On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 12:01 PM Koren, Meshna (ELS-AMS)
 >     <M.Koren at elsevier.com <mailto:M.Koren at elsevier.com>> wrote:
 >
 >         Please allow me to add something to this discussion.
 >
 >         "The university students and staff are free to use
 >         personalisation at Lexis Nexis,
 >         Elsevier, EBSCO, ProQuest services if they want to so
 >            eduPersonScopedAffiliation (required)
 >            eduPersonEntitlement  (required)
 >            eduPersonTargetedID (optional)..."
 >
 >         The students and staff can only use personalization when the IdP
 >         releases ePTID (or pairwiseID), otherwise they can't. I am not
 >         sure that this is clear from the metadata nor that the labels we
 >         use to describe the required attributes are very clear on what
 >         'optional' means.
 >
 >         For example, when a student accesses ScienceDirect they can read
 >         subscribed articles whether or not ePTID has been released for
 >         them, but if they want to 'create account' because they would
 >         like to save searches, alerts or their search history, they can
 >         only do that if the IdP has released a persistent identifier for
 >         them. Otherwise they can't, because there's nothing in their
 >         SAML assertions that allows us to recognize the returning
 >         individual. So we are working towards requiring a persistent ID.
 >         The personalization remains optional for the user.
 >
 >         That may not be the same for other SPs, but it is valid for
 >         Elsevier.
 >
 >         Kind regards,
 >
 >         Meshna
 >
 >         **
 >
 >         *Meshna Koren*
 >
 >
 >         /Product Manager II/
 >
 >         */Product Management - Identity and Access/**/-/**/Research
 >         Products/*
 >
 >         *//*
 >
 >         */Elsevier BV/*
 >
 >         /Radarweg 29, Amsterdam 1043 NX, The Netherlands/
 >
 >         /m.koren at elsevier.com <mailto:m.koren at elsevier.com>/
 >
 >         //
 >
 >         /Federated Access - SAML, Shibboleth, Corporate SSO, OpenAthens,
 >         Institutional Login/
 >
 >         //
 >
 >         /Elsevier Access Support Center:
 >
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fservice.elsevier.com%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Flist%2Fc%2F10543%2Fsupporthub%2Felsevieraccess%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=D%2BpcpwxeUXxRm%2FXe%2BzdOeV4NYbx1G67VfZqy3dGh%2BJs%3D&reserved=0
 >
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fservice.elsevier.com%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Flist%2Fc%2F10543%2Fsupporthub%2Felsevieraccess%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980848987%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=D%2BpcpwxeUXxRm%2FXe%2BzdOeV4NYbx1G67VfZqy3dGh%2BJs%3D&reserved=0>/
 >
 >         /for your questions about which access methods does Elsevier
 >         support, how to set them up, how do they work for users.../
 >
 >         //
 >
 >         *From:* FIM4L <fim4l-bounces at lists.daasi.de
 >         <mailto:fim4l-bounces at lists.daasi.de>> *On Behalf Of* Jiri Pavlik
 >         *Sent:* Sunday, March 14, 2021 15:28
 >         *To:* Bernd Oberknapp <bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de
 >         <mailto:bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de>>
 >         *Cc:* fim4l at lists.daasi.de <mailto:fim4l at lists.daasi.de>
 >         *Subject:* Re: [Fim4l] LexisNexis Advance
 >
 >         **** External email: use caution ****
 >
 >         Hi Bernd,
 >
 >         I see,
 >            eduPersonScopedAffiliation (required)
 >            eduPersonEntitlement  (required)
 >         is working for Freiburg University and
 >            eduPersonScopedAffiliation (required)
 >            eduPersonEntitlement  (required)
 >            eduPersonTargetedID (required)
 >         is not.
 >
 >         The university students and staff are free to use
 >         personalisation at Lexis Nexis,
 >         Elsevier, EBSCO, ProQuest services if they want to so
 >            eduPersonScopedAffiliation (required)
 >            eduPersonEntitlement  (required)
 >            eduPersonTargetedID (optional)
 >         is working for the University as well.
 >
 >         Is it correct?
 >
 >         All the best
 >
 >                    Jiri
 >
 >                 On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 2:40 PM Bernd Oberknapp
 >                 <bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de <mailto:bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de>>
 >                 wrote:
 >
 >                     Hi Jiri,
 >
 >                     On 13.03.21 09:15, Jiri Pavlik wrote:
 >
 >                       > When checking ProQuest SP for ProQuest Central
 >                     in DFN-AAI metadata [1]
 >                       > I can see both eduPersonEntitlement and
 >                     eduPersonTargetedID as required
 >                       > attributes.
 >
 >                     I assume you mean the SP
 >                     https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fshibboleth-sp.prod.proquest.com%2Fshibboleth&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980858981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=5BveoLe5HjYZjpKg0F3zOzj%2B8xMsYXs0ovWwPNYkaNU%3D&reserved=0
 >
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fshibboleth-sp.prod.proquest.com%2Fshibboleth&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980858981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=5BveoLe5HjYZjpKg0F3zOzj%2B8xMsYXs0ovWwPNYkaNU%3D&reserved=0>?
 >                     That's obviously
 >                     wrong, both eduPersonScopedAffiliation and
 >                     eduPersonEntitlement are
 >                     supported for authorization, but as far as I can
 >                     tell you don't have to
 >                     use them, and eduPersonTargetedID isn't required.
 >
 >                       > Is it safe to assume that if there is
 >                     personalisation capability at a
 >                       > library service then all German universities,
 >                     libraries are fine with
 >                       > releasing eduPersonTargetedID for recognising
 >                     returning users and
 >                       > eduPersonEntitlement, eduPersonScopedAffiliation
 >                     for authorisation?
 >
 >                     No. I can't speak for other IdPs, but in my opinion
 >                     that approach would
 >                     be wrong, users by default should be able to use
 >                     services anonymously,
 >                     without being recognized as a returning user. Based
 >                     on what I can see in
 >                     the admin tools, only a very small percentage of our
 >                     users actually uses
 >                     the personalization features, so releasing
 >                     eduPersonTargetedID by
 >                     default just for personalization isn't an option. If
 >                     publishers would
 >                     force us to send an eduPersonTargetedID just for
 >                     personalization I would
 >                     consider dropping Shibboleth for those publishers
 >                     and using our EZproxy
 >                     instead.
 >
 >                     Best regards,
 >                     Bernd
 >
 >                     --
 >                     Bernd Oberknapp
 >                     Gesamtleitung ReDI
 >
 >                     Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
 >                     Universitätsbibliothek
 >                     Platz der Universität 2 | Postfach 1629
 >                     D-79098 Freiburg        | D-79016 Freiburg
 >
 >                     Telefon:  +49 761 203-3852
 >                     Telefax:  +49 761 203-3987
 >                     E-Mail: bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de
 >                     <mailto:bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de>
 >                     Internet: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ub.uni-freiburg.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980858981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ElTwfCzuKdJ5%2B0dsn8LSj%2BI90awy9mnU12j9E%2FnerK8%3D&reserved=0
 >
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 >
 >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >
 >         Elsevier B.V. Registered Office: Radarweg 29, 1043 NX Amsterdam,
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 >         Netherlands.
 >
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 >
 >
 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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 > Elsevier B.V. Registered Office: Radarweg 29, 1043 NX Amsterdam, The
 > Netherlands, Registration No. 33158992, Registered in The Netherlands.
 >
 >
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 >


--
Bernd Oberknapp
Gesamtleitung ReDI

Albert-Ludwigs-Universität Freiburg
Universitätsbibliothek
Platz der Universität 2 | Postfach 1629
D-79098 Freiburg        | D-79016 Freiburg

Telefon:  +49 761 203-3852
Telefax:  +49 761 203-3987
E-Mail:   bo at ub.uni-freiburg.de
Internet: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ub.uni-freiburg.de%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjos.westerbeke%40eur.nl%7Cc0436c14482a495fd19f08d8e7d796a8%7C715902d6f63e4b8d929b4bb170bad492%7C0%7C0%7C637514260980858981%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=ElTwfCzuKdJ5%2B0dsn8LSj%2BI90awy9mnU12j9E%2FnerK8%3D&reserved=0

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